There are 3 reconised duels in the period. Also Liu Biao is Dong Zhou's ally and Sun Jian is Yuan Shu's vassal not a Warlord in his own right.

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'Hate the sin, love the sinner'-?

'God is my only true Lord all other's are masters that he chooses me to serve at that time.'-Sun Fin
'If todys not worth living for, live for tomorrow!'-Stephen Finch

Dian Wei wasnt deposed of his halberds in the fatal betrayal in which he gave his life so that Cao Cao could escape

Skode wrote:

Dian Wei wasnt deposed of his halberds in the fatal betrayal in which he gave his life so that Cao Cao could escape

It would actually be impractical for Dian Wei to use two halberds at the same time. Not to mention the fact that the verse in his biography was;

"Dian Wei had a big pair of crescent halberds as well as a long sword."

That would not be the case. Crescent halberds did not exist during the Han dynasty, and they would have been merely the common L shaped halberds shown in the Dynasty Warriors games. The crescent Ji did not come about until around the Tang dynasty.

And then there's the weight of his weapons as well. They were roughly 90 lbs, and that alone would have been so impractical to swing around on a battlefield. Not to mention the biography mentions nothing of him actually using these weapons in battle, which could possibly mean they were only weapons meant as symbols, or some form of training weapon*. It does mention him using an axe while fighting Zhang Xiu and defending Cao Cao though, and then it mentions the halberds. Perhaps there is an error in the translation?

*I can recall seeing Guan Yu's temple, and his alleged guan dao is there, and it is 200 lbs. This surely would not have been used in battle, and even looking at examinations from the Song (when the guan dao was put into widespread use), the heavy guan dao was only around 20 lbs. Even then, that is heavy to swing around on the battlefield, and was only just a training weapon.

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"We shall build you a cairn beyond the black river, where no one will disturb your rest. There you shall lay in your helm and your harness, your sword across your breast."

"What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women. That is good!"

Beowulf wrote:

Skode wrote: Dian Wei wasnt deposed of his halberds in the fatal betrayal in which he gave his life so that Cao Cao could escape It would actually be impractical for Dian Wei to use two halberds at the same time. Not to mention the fact that the verse in his biography was; "Dian Wei had a big pair of crescent halberds as well as a long sword." That would not be the case. Crescent halberds did not exist during the Han dynasty, and they would have been merely the common L shaped halberds shown in the Dynasty Warriors games. The crescent Ji did not come about until around the Tang dynasty. And then there's the weight of his weapons as well. They were roughly 90 lbs, and that alone would have been so impractical to swing around on a battlefield. Not to mention the biography mentions nothing of him actually using these weapons in battle, which could possibly mean they were only weapons meant as symbols, or some form of training weapon*. It does mention him using an axe while fighting Zhang Xiu and defending Cao Cao though, and then it mentions the halberds. Perhaps there is an error in the translation? *I can recall seeing Guan Yu's temple, and his alleged guan dao is there, and it is 200 lbs. This surely would not have been used in battle, and even looking at examinations from the Song (when the guan dao was put into widespread use), the heavy guan dao was only around 20 lbs. Even then, that is heavy to swing around on the battlefield, and was only just a training weapon.

Indeed, in the face of your argument i find myself inclined to agree with you. You are very clued up on this so i was wondering if you can tell me - Did Cheng Pu really wield a Serpent Spear? Few get such a credited mention of what they weilded and i can see myself being crestfallen if it turns out this also is false

Skode wrote:

Beowulf wrote: Skode wrote: Dian Wei wasnt deposed of his halberds in the fatal betrayal in which he gave his life so that Cao Cao could escape It would actually be impractical for Dian Wei to use two halberds at the same time. Not to mention the fact that the verse in his biography was; "Dian Wei had a big pair of crescent halberds as well as a long sword." That would not be the case. Crescent halberds did not exist during the Han dynasty, and they would have been merely the common L shaped halberds shown in the Dynasty Warriors games. The crescent Ji did not come about until around the Tang dynasty. And then there's the weight of his weapons as well. They were roughly 90 lbs, and that alone would have been so impractical to swing around on a battlefield. Not to mention the biography mentions nothing of him actually using these weapons in battle, which could possibly mean they were only weapons meant as symbols, or some form of training weapon*. It does mention him using an axe while fighting Zhang Xiu and defending Cao Cao though, and then it mentions the halberds. Perhaps there is an error in the translation? *I can recall seeing Guan Yu's temple, and his alleged guan dao is there, and it is 200 lbs. This surely would not have been used in battle, and even looking at examinations from the Song (when the guan dao was put into widespread use), the heavy guan dao was only around 20 lbs. Even then, that is heavy to swing around on the battlefield, and was only just a training weapon. Indeed, in the face of your argument i find myself inclined to agree with you. You are very clued up on this so i was wondering if you can tell me - Did Cheng Pu really wield a Serpent Spear? Few get such a credited mention of what they weilded and i can see myself being crestfallen if it turns out this also is false

His biography doesn't mention a serpent spear, though there is a line which says;

"Once, Sun Ce attacked Zu Lang, but was surrounded instead by the enemy. Cheng Pu took one mount with him to defend Sun Ce; he galloped on his horse and yelled loudly, striking the bandits with his spear."

So he did use a spear, now is it a snake like spear? We don't know, though I would think something like that would be merely fiction, for the simple fact that not only would it have been difficult to make (even though the Chinese had the blast furnace, a weapon like that would have been made by a master craftsman. Add on that it simply wouldn't have been economical for him to make a spear head like that which would have less function than a normal spear.)

It would have been more economical for the craftsman to make swords, since spears were a rather disposable weapon. The only real important part was the blade, and that could easily be salvaged from a broken shaft.

One other note, how would Dian Wei's weapon even be 88 pounds? Even if the shaft was made of metal, it would have to be a pretty thick shaft. And if it wasn't the shaft, then the blade of the Ji must have been extremely large, and that would have made the weapon unbalanced.

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"We shall build you a cairn beyond the black river, where no one will disturb your rest. There you shall lay in your helm and your harness, your sword across your breast."

"What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women. That is good!"

A serpent spear, is a spear that is in a swerve in the point shaped like a sidewinder. However I would rather call it a river Spear because it resembles that more. But there is two points in the front making it resemble the serpents tongue.

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Losing friends faster than i can make them...

Meng Huo did exist, but like Beowulf pointed out he wasn't a king. Zhu Rong, Wu Tugu and Duosi Duwang never existed though.

Depending on what you believe, Wen Pin was the one who used the empty city ruse, not Zhuge Liang. Zhao Yun also used a simular tactic at Han Shui.

Zhuge Liang didn't predict the seven attacks outcome after Liu Bei's death.

Lu Xun's fire attack didn't destroy Liu Bei's armies as stated in the novel, it was actually a rockslide, or a hill caving in which dealt the fatal blow.

Xiahou Dun never ate his eye, also he never killed Cao Xing, actually it wasn't Cao Xing who shot Dun, it was a stray arrow.

Chen Gong was not a brilliant advisor, Gao Shun is the man behind most of Lu Bu's successes and many of his strategies.

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Many things which nature makes difficult become easy to the man who uses his brains.

God has given no greater spur to victory than contempt of death

Was Chen Gong really so inept, he always seemed in company of influencal people

Quote:

Was Chen Gong really so inept, he always seemed in company of influencal people

He wasn't inept he was quite talented, he just wasn't a very good advisor.

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Many things which nature makes difficult become easy to the man who uses his brains.

God has given no greater spur to victory than contempt of death

So Gao Shun was gifted in the strategical arts as well as the martial?

Quite a versatile chap, eh?

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One kind word can warm three Winter months... ~ Japanese Proverb

Not to mention Zang Ba

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Losing friends faster than i can make them...

scholar wrote:

Not to mention Zang Ba

I don't believe he was ever one of Lu Bu's officers. I;m fairly certain he was a bandit who worked with Lu Bu and Cao Cao captured later.

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'Hate the sin, love the sinner'-?

'God is my only true Lord all other's are masters that he chooses me to serve at that time.'-Sun Fin
'If todys not worth living for, live for tomorrow!'-Stephen Finch

Ma chao attacked Cao Cao before his father died
liu bei had 40,000 men at Yi ling not 700,000 ! and Lu xun had 160,000